We say goodbye to Star Trek: Deep Space Nine with “What You Leave Behind”, as plots are resolved, characters leave, and the Star Trek universe is changed forever. We also place the show in context with what’s come before on Trekabout, and wonder a bit about the future. Plus! A surprising and long overdue announcement.
Trekabout Episode 236: What You Leave Behind
Sunjammer
-I absolutely loved hearing you guys talk about this series – you both have the insight necessary to thoroughly explore all the implications of the universe and its social and political nuances. You rightfully criticize narrative issues and call out boneheaded writing decisions when appropriate. You’re energetic and funny and the two of you have a great dynamic. I don’t even love Voyager but I’m going to have a blast hearing you guys go through it and witness the madness therein.
Eric Brasure
-Thank you so much!
HabsFan29
-This is very sad. I am very sad. I am very upset DS9 has ended on TAS. You guys did an amazing job, and I thank you. I will listen to you go through YOT and ENT, but I won’t like it! I kid, I kid, I will like hearing you guys talk about it. And getting to hear Richard finally meeting Tuvok will be worth it.
Welcome to being a trekkie Richard!
HabsFan29
-Not sure how “VOY” became “YOT”, but you knew what I meant
HabsFan29
-Now, for the episode, I would have a lot to say but I’ll keep it brief. The one thing I wanted to comment on was your excellent discussion of the Cardassians. I am always reminded how much I feel for the Cardassians (not sure what I feel exactly, but I feel _something_) thanks to two lines spoken by unnamed Cardassian with a weapon:
“That’s for Lokarian City”
“Legat Damar, I pledge my life to freeing Cardassia from the Dominion” (and ps Damar’s reply – “With men like you on our side, how can we fail” is awesome too)
I always get shivers at that scene, and it’s because the Cardassians as a people have had just this tremendous arc on DS9.
RIP Mila.
Eric Brasure
-Agreed! The Cardassians are one of the best things DS9 did. And thanks for the kind words!
Jonas Kyratzes
-I have a hate-love relationship with this show. I love many of its characters, I love some of its episodes… just hearing the theme music makes me emotional. At its best, it is genuinely thoughtful and well-written. At its worst, it’s a kind of proto-Battlestar Galactica (remake), a reflection of the decay of liberalism in the 1990s.
It’s certainly better-produced and better-written than TNG ever was, but it has a very different soul. People often say that Roddenberry was too restrictive, that his vision of a conflict-free society made episodes dull. I don’t think that’s true. I think the problem was that the writers he picked never really fully shared or understood that concept on a political/philosophical basis. Their failure was one of imagination. The material in DS9 is built on a very different philosophical basis, one that I consider far lesser, but because it much was closer to their own way of thinking, they produced much more effective scripts. So you get a show that reaches for less, but also fails less, and so feels much more ambitious. It’s weird.
I think the best way of explaining what bothers me about DS9 is that while yes, it does challenge certain ideas, the ideas it challenges are largely the *progressive* ones. It asks questions like: what if we need to assassinate people? What if we need to spy on people? What if there was a baby strapped to a bomb? BSG later takes that even further, but it’s there in DS9 already. “In the Pale Moonlight” feels like it’s the product of a time when liberals are asking themselves whether it’s OK for Bill Clinton to starve 500.000 Iraqi children to death, or whether bombing Kosovo is the acceptable kind of imperialism. It’s chilling because it’s the writers looking at the Federation, here a representation of the US, chucking its values out the window in favour of CIA-style dirty tactics, and saying (to quote Madeleine Albright on the subject of dead Iraqi children) “we think it’s worth it.” In its own historical/political context, it’s deeply disturbing and reactionary.
At the same time, there’s a lot in there that’s valuable. A lot of great moments, including far less reactionary ones. And even the flaws are, I suppose, genuine – this is what the writers think, it’s not just propaganda. The end of the season is kind of a missed opportunity, though. Like you said, characters like Dukat deserved better. In fact, there’s a parallel here to BSG, where at the very end, Ronald D. Moore also chooses to take all the fabulously multidimensional characters and just turn them into good guys or villains, and it’s really baffling, because… why give them all this complexity in the first place? And why not take advantage of it? There’s so much there – in the depth of the characters, the history of the various groups – that you could just do so much more.
I would have loved to see a triumph of the values of the Federation, of diplomacy and understanding, even if it came at a really high price. (I also wonder what this show might have been like if it wasn’t part of Star Trek, or was set in the mirror universe or something. Or if they’d been allowed to go for some of their really crazy ideas, like destroying the Federation.)
I’m being very critical here, and I think these criticisms are legit… but I *have* watched the whole thing at least three times. I do feel emotionally attached to it. I do love Bashir and O’Brien, and Garak, and my games contain references to self-sealing stembolts and gold-pressed latinum. I think there’s even a gull somewhere called Gull Dukat. (I certainly have that idiotic idea in my notes.) So, you know, love and hate. I’m fond of it but it annoys me. It’s the Quark to my Odo.
Since you talk a lot about Trump and oppression, I’d love for you guys to cover Babylon 5 at some point, a show that’s very explicitly about what happens when your government stops representing the things you believe in. If you do, though, I’d ask that you continue the one thing that I appreciated the most about how you approached Star Trek: you did so in good faith. So much discussion on the internet comes from a place of cynicism and sarcastic detachment, and that’s just incredibly unhealthy, and makes it impossible to enjoy many good shows. B5, like DS9, has its flaws, but it’s a complex, ambitious work of art and is worth taking seriously. I’ve obiously joked about the superiority of one to the other, and that’s fine as a joke, but I do think both shows are worth approaching with an open mind and with enthusiasm. I’m glad you did that with DS9 and would love for that to continue.
Thanks for all these many hours of entertainment, guys! I look forward to your thoughts on The Neelix Show and Dogs in Space.
Jonas Kyratzes
-(And yes, I don’t appreciate VOY or ENT, but they should still be given a chance, right? It’s OK to hate Neelix once you know Neelix, but what’s so terrible about the internet is people just hating things because it’s expected.)
Eric Brasure
-Thanks Jonas! Your thoughts, as always, are appreciated. We definitely will continue to approach the rest of Trek in good faith, which may be difficult to do sometimes, especially for Voyager, but it will be done. I am not a fan of the ever present cynicism that pervades online discourse these days and try to act as a counterweight.
As for your thoughts on DS9, we’ll just agree to disagree. 🙂
Niner
-Really Great run with DS9. For me, this is where you hit the apex of trek. DS( was where the much beloved world set up in TNG was really challenged and tested. It was a very different show. Voyager and Enterprise are very different types of shows as well which I only came to appreciate later on. Good luck with Voyager.
After listening to your show I can never watch a Donald Trump speech with hearing the words “Attention, Bajoran workers” in my head.
Eric Brasure
-Thanks Niner! DS9 is definitely the “best” Trek, but I’ve come around to Voyager and Enterprise, as well. They’re not great shows, but they have their charms, and they’re worthy Trek, IMO. Hopefully Richard thinks so too!
Niner
-without hearing the words I mean. Sorry!